Curse

Lament Messon · Jun 09, 2005, 11:22 AM // 11:22

Anet does not want farming to be a major issue. People are probably always going to be selling their wares, but they don't want players to be the major buyers and sellers in this game. Expect the market for sold out runes and weapon upgrades to skyrocket, and expect Anet to come behind and fix it.

We have to love Guildwars for what it is, and not for what we want it to be. It is not a Camping or farming game. Enjoy the game for what it is and love it or leave it.

I do worry about the SoC working on boss mobs at the end of missions, and whether or not they give you say 20 seconds after the boss dies to use the SoC. Also if the SoC still works while the boss is alive allowing you to capture it if it is the last boss in a mission.

Pyrthas · Jun 09, 2005, 11:24 AM // 11:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by XeNoGeArZ

yea but not all ppl are into pvp. for me, as an example. yeah i know the game is called 'guild wars', and probably made for pvp, but i really enjoy the pve aspect of the game, and one MAJOR, i should say SUPERIOR, reason i bought this game, over another, is no monthly fee.

as for the new soc, i will agree with another poster that it was much more fun, when you heard 'got it!' from a group of similar class fellows that you went on to get the skill. i made two more buddies that way, when we went for the 'battle rage' skill. (this was when you had to drop items for him to use it) now, i can just go with henchies and kill the boss - sure it took time to find ppl willing to go and get it, but its more rewarding before the patch.

Here's the thing, though. GW was never supposed to be a game in which you were to spend countless hours striving to make your character the best it could be. It's supposed to be relatively easy to get things like elites and good weapons. Grinding for those improvements for your character is precisely the grind that Anet wants to get rid of.

It is *not* just an MMO without a monthly fee. There's a reason it was called a competitive online game and not a massively multiplayer online game. GW, both PvE and PvP, is (supposed to be) about strategy, not grinding for hours and hours to get the best stuff so that you can trivialize things. It's about bringing the right skills (based on what you're doing and the rest of your group), not spending hours hunting down those skills. It's about communicating with your group so that you don't die horrible deaths against relatively tough opponents. And since that's what the game's supposed to be about, why bother with a grind? Why make people struggle for a long time before they can participate in this part of the game? Why not make it relatively easy to get skills and runes and good items? Because people enjoy the grind? Well, okay, but that's not what GW is about.

If you don't enjoy that sort of game--if you prefer grinding to get an uber character--then GW might not be for you. That's okay. It probably isn't the best choice for a lot of people. But it isn't just an MMO without a fee. It's an entirely different sort of game with an entirely different focus.

Edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by dansamy

I think that's the point. This game is marketed towards being able to PvP competitively right out of the box. They do need to be careful of what changes they make that affect the PvE content.

Not really. You're supposed to be able to compete in PvE, too. I think that part of the problem is that people equate PvE and grinding. That's not what it's supposed to be in GW. You say that they need to be careful with changing PvE. I agree. But PvE content in GW isn't farming and getting better loot. PvE should be not entirely unlike PvP in GW; both depend a great deal on planning and not as much on how long you've spent hunting down the best stuff. Giving PvEers better stuff doesn't screw up Anet's vision any more than giving PvPers better stuff does, because in neither case is it supposed to be a peron's items/unlocked skills/unlocked runes that determines his or her success.

Requiring people to spend hours farming to get good stuff for PvE goes against Anet's concept of this game for exactly the same reason that requiring people to spend hours farming to get good stuff for PvP does. PvE and PvP are not suppoosed to be playstyles as distinct as people seem to want them to be.

Has this all been said before? Well, yeah, but it still doesn't seem to have sunk in. Also, I'm procrastinating.

But I've written way more than I should, so I'll stop.

Killion · Jun 09, 2005, 01:23 PM // 13:23

Good thing I didn;t do the Villarny quest yet. 500 to 4000, big change

astzzz · Jun 09, 2005, 01:39 PM // 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobum

Agreed - this was a LOT of fun before - now it's, well...lame
I guess the next step to make it even EASIER for people will be to let party members capture each others skills...

As I said, its not fun spamming the SoC in hopes that the boss will use the elite, which in my case doesnt show up in the skill bar because its a stance. The group I went out with to get it was doing this for 20 minutes. And we had to do the war of attrition that is snake dance to get there.

momo2oo2 · Jun 09, 2005, 02:07 PM // 14:07

The SoC system, the rune traders, and also de Dwarves Ale are greats updates to *me*. What does that mean ? There are as many points of view as players are. Let me explain:

I work 10 hours a day with 2 hours lapse to lunch. That leaves me for 22:00 - 01:30 to play, and not everyday. So the new patch is GREAT for me; I was tired of farming, didn't have too many buddys yet, I can't spend 2 hours to get an elite or a major rune. And really really hate the trade system. I've only used it 3 or 4 times with success. The other 10-15 I've spent 20-30 minutes yelling "WTS x", "WTB x" to get *nothing*.

So, there are people that can play 5-more hours a day that found challengin/fun/etc in farm, trade, soc captures etc.

Also, I think we are getting used to get A.net to hear all of our complains and suggestions. It looks like they are "obligued" to do it. I mean, with any other game before u had what you had, and with the updates they wanted.

So, from me BIG THANKS A.net!

Bobum · Jun 09, 2005, 02:16 PM // 14:16

Quote:

I was tired of farming, didn't have too many buddys yet, I can't spend 2 hours to get an elite or a major rune. And really really hate the trade system.

This is exactly what I don't understand. (and this isn't directed at you personally Moo)

Isn't the idea about build your character to put in a little work, time and effort and "building your character"? If someone can put in 3 hours a day and you only 2, how is it unfair that he may find better stuff or have more experience than you? If you don't want to put in any time to build a good character then why not play something like Unreal Tournament? You don't have to spend any time there to get an uber character with uber weapons. I just don't get it.

These are probably the same people who, when they were little kids, had to be given a gift at their siblings birthday party to keep them quiet because "Well if Johnny is getting presents then I want one too - that's not fair...."

Dalia · Jun 09, 2005, 02:23 PM // 14:23

I sometimes wonder if Guild Wars is too far ahead of it's time. So many gamers seemed locked in that grind/farm/uber mindset. Anyway, I appreciate the changes, think the game is remarkable, and want to thank the dev's for continually striving to improve upon it.

And, right now I'm enjoying the only beverage more intoxicating than dwarven ale: farmer's wine.

Dalia

Mumblyfish · Jun 09, 2005, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobum

If someone can put in 3 hours a day and you only 2, how is it unfair that he may find better stuff or have more experience than you?

Prove Your Worth in a World Where Skill Decides
Your Skill Will Be Your Legend

You'll prove your worth with every battle as skill, not hours played, decides your fate. Whether battling horrific monsters or competing in the highest levels of tournament play, it will always be your skill that earns you victory or defeat.

Algren Cole · Jun 09, 2005, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by SantaClause

Not only are these great steps in keeping all players happy, most of these fixes came directly from these forums. Do a search on almost anyone of these updates and you will find it mentioned here!

Ty Anet

do a search for any of the updates on any of the various guild wars forums and you'll find it there too.....

Executioner · Jun 09, 2005, 02:47 PM // 14:47

Awesome patch Anet,

I was so angry at the amout of times i tried to capture an elite, first time i missed the skill, second time the signet started.. but i must have been to slow as the enemy use another skill real quick and i got the "you allready have this skill msg", 3rd time he didnt even use the skill, 4th time we killed him to fast.. 5th time i got it thou..

Unlike some people i think everyone should be able to get elite skills easyer and you've done this !!!

its not the skills its the team build & tactics that counts.

Nurfed farming !! yay, did i mention im a addict.. i dont want to farm, its just... i dunno.. like some kind of brain malfunction ive got ! the only thing ive got to say on this is make sure people are still getting plenty of rune drops so there arnt any hoarders to create rune price problems.

And the fixed fame for tombs is great, i noticed some PUG's seem to think people with more fame will be better and dont invite players with less fame than "so so", which is silly really, yeah ok they want experienced players but with PUG teams its a bit more about just having fun even if you do want to be in a serious group.

Everything else yay ! standard patch stuff..

Bobum · Jun 09, 2005, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mumblyfish

Prove Your Worth in a World Where Skill Decides
Your Skill Will Be Your Legend

You'll prove your worth with every battle as skill, not hours played, decides your fate. Whether battling horrific monsters or competing in the highest levels of tournament play, it will always be your skill that earns you victory or defeat.

So just toss out all the character building elements of the game, give everyone uber weapons and skills and lets play capture the flag! Woohoo! Unreal GuildWars Tournament!

WeiPing · Jun 09, 2005, 02:57 PM // 14:57

I also find myself in the "the old SOC system was really cool, but I guess it didn't work well for some skills meaning the new system is probably necessary even if I won't enjoy it nearly as much" crowd. =/

codemonkey · Jun 09, 2005, 02:58 PM // 14:58

Wish they had a retroactive for Villany of Garath. My guild and I finally took the time to do this mission (w/o dying over and over) this past Saturday night. We all agreed to meet up and finally get it done ( one of our guys is already a lvl 20 ascended dude) and fought are way there, and completed the mission. I then received 500XP and was like "are you kidding me? How on earth can that be correct?" -- then they go and up it to 4K a few days _after_ we finally complete the mission. I guess procrastinating longer would have, in the end, given us a better chance for XP ;-)

Algren Cole · Jun 09, 2005, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Executioner

Awesome patch Anet,

I was so angry at the amout of times i tried to capture an elite, first time i missed the skill, second time the signet started.. but i must have been to slow as the enemy use another skill real quick and i got the "you allready have this skill msg", 3rd time he didnt even use the skill, 4th time we killed him to fast.. 5th time i got it thou..

Unlike some people i think everyone should be able to get elite skills easyer and you've done this !!!

its not the skills its the team build & tactics that counts.

Nurfed farming !! yay, did i mention im a addict.. i dont want to farm, its just... i dunno.. like some kind of brain malfunction ive got ! the only thing ive got to say on this is make sure people are still getting plenty of rune drops so there arnt any hoarders to create rune price problems.

And the fixed fame for tombs is great, i noticed some PUG's seem to think people with more fame will be better and dont invite players with less fame than "so so", which is silly really, yeah ok they want experienced players but with PUG teams its a bit more about just having fun even if you do want to be in a serious group.

Everything else yay ! standard patch stuff..

so you're happy that they've rewarded you for not being any good at the game? The game is supposed to be tough...you're supposed to have to try things multiple times...you shouldn't be able to just rush your way through the game.

Mumblyfish · Jun 09, 2005, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobum

So just toss out all the character building elements of the game...

Killing the same things over and over is considered character building? I despair, Morris. I really do. The character building side of the game (at least the statistical side of it) ought to come from your skill bar and attributes, not farming. And then, if you want more character building, get roleplaying!

Loviatar · Jun 09, 2005, 03:03 PM // 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrenJasper

Wake up and smell the irony. It wasn't a month ago that your kind was whining for more sigils, easier sigils, cheaper sigils, and guess what? You got it. Now it's our turn, so sit the hell down.

please wait a minute

go back through every post i have made and you will find that none of the above applies to me so i dont fit into whatever *your kind* you are thinking of

my position is live and let live and have stated recently that skill points have to be made waayyy easier to get and also other things along that line (i oppose the UAS)

WeiPing · Jun 09, 2005, 03:06 PM // 15:06

FYI, Spectral Agony now does 9 points of damage intead of 3 (if you were fully infused).

Dazzler · Jun 09, 2005, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

I'm at a bit of a loss with this patch. There are many good things implemented that are quite important. But the SoC system to get it off a dead boss? That's not really 'capturing' now is it? That doesn't take the grind out of the game, it takes the fun out of it

I believe you forgot to add IMHO. For me the SoC system sucked. It was total grind to get an elite skill. The process went something like this: Go to a website and lookup the elite you want and the boss to get it from. Go fight through the mission/area to get to the boss. Wait for him to cast the skill while trying to stay alive and keep your party/henchman from killing it. Pray he did not cast it before you got there and will never cast again this run. If it is quick-casting skill or if it is a stance, just spend the whole time spamming SoC and hope you get lucky. Finally kill the boss without getting your skill. Warp out and back in and repeat again. And again and again. This is GRIND and not fun no matter if I am PVP or PVE. So IMHO this change definately took the grind out of the game and put some of the FUN back in--Now I can play with Elites without having to GRIND to get them. They are like quests now - Want an elite, figure out where you can get it, then go quest for the boss and kill it to get your reward -- note there is still grind involved as you only have so many skill points...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

The rune trader aswell. I have nothing against it, but it'd be nice if it were implemented as such that they only sold the runes you had unlocked. It'd save having to grind for the rune you want for your build if you already have it, and it'd also keep the game fun to play by not making things too easy and less rewarding.

Again, you forgot the IMHO. What would be the point of only being able to buy runes you've already unlocked? The whole problem was the sheer magnitude of the farming grind required in order to be able to use a rune. I was lvl20 and ascended and the only runes I ever got for my character were 2 minors I unlocked and a minor I bought. All other runes I ever found were for other professions I could not use. And I never got a superior. And I could not afford to pay $50k to buy a superior from another player. Thus I played the game as it was intended (did not farm) and was punished by never being able to use one of the important items for my profession--while the grinders were able to do what they wanted. Now after this change, I was able to go BUY a superior rune as it only cost 5000gp. This of course wiped out all my money but hey at least now I can try out the character build I've been wanting to try since I started playing! This IMHO is MUCH better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

There is a line between removing grind and removing sense of accomplishment and this patch has just stepped over it

I disagree. There is still a since of accomplishment. Those runes are not free! You still have to drum up the gold to buy them. Which means you still have to go adventure to earn that money. And the SoC system still requires a "Quest For The Elite Boss" sort of journey--only now you are gauranteed of a reward if you are successful much like a real Quest, instead of having only a 0.005% chance of getting it even after doing everything right.

My only complaint with the patch is that they nerfed farming by making MOB's more difficult. Since I don't farm, it is not the farm-nerfing that bothers me. My concern is that now I am going to be adventuring in a "farming hot-spot" and get my rear handed to me by the mobs b/c they will be TOO TOUGH to kill.

Already the Sanctum Clay Bonus is impossible to do due to the farm nerfing from the last patch - The drake damage increased and the bonus-giving ghost gets killed in one whack long before you can get to him and save him. I hope that ANet will eventually address the PVE imbalances like this they have introduced in their quest to nerf farming.

Executioner · Jun 09, 2005, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

so you're happy that they've rewarded you for not being any good at the game?

LOL, sry thats just funny..yes i am happy !

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

The game is supposed to be tough...you're supposed to have to try things multiple times...you shouldn't be able to just rush your way through the game.

The PVE isnt that tough(and if i know what im doing i can rush if i want :P), Its only tough if you(or your party) make it tough for your self, which is fun sometimes, but for me the PVE is just a means to PVP with different builds and the PVP is the part that can be very tough, but by far the most rewarding.

salja Wachi · Jun 09, 2005, 03:36 PM // 15:36

sorry to tell you that you are wrong. you cannot use the runes you buy at the trader on your PvP character unless you use the on you bought it with. your PvP character will still only be able to use the runes that you have unlocked.